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question about claming land

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by overlord213, 15 Jan 2012.

?

If people are permibanned or offline for a long time, should their land be repossed

  1. yes

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. no

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. maybe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. people may take advantage of this

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    Hi. Directly next to our town there is a large amount of land thats been buildt on by epag1998 and T_w22 who have been banned for exploting and tp killing i belive.
    Thier homes (screenshots shall be posted) have been lockketted but are owned by themselves. There are other peoples names on the lockettes but they are only for entering, not for owning of the actulal homes.

    My question is can we claim the land and be alllowed to expand around and into the land as there doesnt seem to be any way the epag1998 and T_w22 will be coming back on the sever and its a waste leaving the houses derlict.

    Being able to take the land and expand there would be of a great help for our town and members along with the clan.

    Thanks for having a look at this, screenshots will be posted by oclusaires as he took the time to take all the screenshots.
     
    #1
  2. OculusAires

    OculusAires Member

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    I'm going to upload screenshots to show what structures are involved in this proclaim. Though they need to be reduced in size and sometimes brightened, so it'll take a while to upload. But they're on their way.
     
    #2
  3. OculusAires

    OculusAires Member

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    Alright, here they are. Everything placed accordingly of distance to our town. There are some more privated chests and doors which aren't on any screenshot, but I think you get the picture. (No pun intended).
    2012-01-15_11.50.58.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.45.23.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.30.17.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.30.04.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.27.09.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.25.56.jpg
    2012-01-15_12.22.44.jpg
    2012-01-15_12.22.18.jpg
    2012-01-15_11.42.47.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    #3
  4. VladTheImposter

    VladTheImposter Addicted

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    For people who are a guaranteed perma-banned my opinion would be a yes. But for bans that have a possibility for the player to come back I say no.

    In addition, I think the best way to decide this anyhow is to determine by who was there first. I think if the city was there in the first place, then the city has the priority when expanding. If they were there first, then I say they don't have to move.
     
    #4
  5. OculusAires

    OculusAires Member

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    The case is that the guys who actually still plays don't reside there anymore, probably because of relocation. I believe they should be taken into questioning about this matter.
     
    #5
  6. Diage

    Diage Active Member

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    There is an over abundance of land ya know.. (for now at least)
     
    #6
  7. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    the town was in construction before most people started building there, a few days after the sever was reset the town was in its early stages of consrtuction. and Diage its not so much the lack of land its where the town is currenty located thats the problem, quite a few people live around the town itself that dont play or have been banned and this limits the expanison of the town.
     
    #7
  8. the_amber_trap

    the_amber_trap Calm down so I can be the angry one. Staff Member

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    I've cautioned members numerous times about building too close to developing towns. If the town in question is within view of the residence (intervening terrain notwithstanding) I generally tell people to find somewhere else to live.
    There is no reason whatsoever that a permabanned player should be able to limit your expansion, though do speak with an admin about it in the server so they can survey the site, confirm the resident is indeed permabanned, and possibly rollback the construction to make room for you.
    That said, if you've started a town next to someone who's been there for quite a while, it's your responsibility to accommodate them. (I'm aware this may not apply in this instance, but I'm saying it for other members' future reference.)
     
    #8
  9. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    Of course, if someones had their home next to the town before i started building then i do build away from their home giving themselves room for thier own building.
    The very first picture that oculusaires took and posted is taking from atop our town wall, thats how close thier are to our town.
    Ill get an admin in game to check and so on so forth.
     
    #9
  10. Pawned

    Pawned Founder Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

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    egap1998 and t_w22 have only just been unbanned.
     
    #10
  11. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    ah i have been recently informed that they have been unbanned so this renders that part of this thread utter poo.
     
    #11
  12. jkerr

    jkerr Builder, hermit VIP RAINBRO Ancient

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    Well, the structure you're talking about went up nov 30th, built by egap and Wakey (not banned) and the wall you wish to expand was expanded to be close to this structure dec 26th. There's also a small structure created by Rovers15 on dec 12th, a fenced in pen by Wakey on nov 29th, a fountain area created by Wakey dec 3-10, animal pen by T_W dec 3, small castle by egap dec 4, a tower by macallett and egap dec 29th, a store by Wakey dec 11... and their floating farm above dec 12th.

    So looking at these dates, looks like they were there at least as long if not before you. Mind you, you're all right next to Aquashi... You could either expand in another direction or pack it all up and move to somewhere a little more open and isolated...
     
    #12
  13. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    Its fine their unbanned so i wont prusue the claiming of the land, the wall was completed around that time but it was an on off project so it wasnt a obvious expansion.
    We thought about moving but it would take a while to moveall the homes and stuff not including the time needed to find a nice isloated area with lots of room for expansion. World edit would make that much easier xD
     
    #13
  14. MrHobbits

    MrHobbits The Angry Panda Staff Member

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    Lol... or you could be complete jerks and Towny Claim that land and force the decision to them. You could say it was Eminent Domain... in which case you would be fully allowed, by Rights given to you by Towny, to destroy their *private* property, as long as you compensated them for their losses. (e.g. add up the total value of the stuff they have there, and pay them for it.)

    The term "eminent domain" was taken from the legal treatise, De Jure Belli et Pacis, written by the Dutch jurist Hugo Grotius in 1625, who used the term dominium eminens (Latin for supreme lordship) and described the power as follows:
    "... The property of subjects is under the eminent domain of the state, so that the state or he who acts for it may use and even alienate and destroy such property, not only in the case of extreme necessity, in which even private persons have a right over the property of others, but for ends of public utility, to which ends those who founded civil society must be supposed to have intended that private ends should give way. But it is to be added that when this is done the state is bound to make good the loss to those who lose their property."

    Further Translation, in case that confused the hell out of you:
    The personal property of people, is under the jurisdiction of the state (Towny Mayor?) so that the Mayor, or those entrusted to act on their behalf, may use, exile, and destroy the personal property. Not only when necessary (permabanned players), but for the purpose of bettering the public (expansion of towny). To which ends, those who are members of Pawncraft, should give up their claims of that personal property. However, it should be noted, that in either case, the owner of the property should be paid for their losses. I would even go so far as to say that you should help them rebuild exactly what they had, just somewhere far far away. OR, rather than destroy, allow them to have that plot in which their stuff resides to be purchased at a very very low cost (10Pawn?).

    ^ Hope that helps.
     
    #14
  15. jkerr

    jkerr Builder, hermit VIP RAINBRO Ancient

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    Interesting - I assume that when the chunks were claimed with towny, the structures on it, since not made by town members, would revert?
     
    #15
  16. overlord213

    overlord213 VIP VIP

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    Well as confusing as the first paragraph sounded(untill you translated thanks :)) we dont have towny right now so we couldnt claim land that way and also we wouldnt go as far as to be jerks and jsut claim it and be like meh build somewhere else, here have a coupon for 10% off a plot in out town...hell build where your pervious home was for the lolz.
     
    #16
  17. the_amber_trap

    the_amber_trap Calm down so I can be the angry one. Staff Member

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    Eminent domain is such bullshit law anyway that I can't in good faith allow it to be perpetuated on our fine server. The compensation is never adequate (I've unfortunately seen a couple of people lose their homes to it) and often for something ridiculous like a highway bypass.
     
    #17
  18. MrHobbits

    MrHobbits The Angry Panda Staff Member

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    Oh, no doubting that it's a horrible law. They make good use of it in Colorado too. They also made use of it here in Virginia awhile back too. Guess what they built?..... A raised and twisty WALKWAY. That's it...
     
    #18
  19. the_amber_trap

    the_amber_trap Calm down so I can be the angry one. Staff Member

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    Wow, that's even sillier than what I've seen it used for. Couldn't people just walk around whatever private property is in the way?
     
    #19

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