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Staff Advantages?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by slawitb0y, 18 Jul 2012.

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  1. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    I mean to cause no trouble, though I don't like to see a guy be shot down by lemmings for simply voicing his opinions. Admins have more powers than normal members, and rightly should, though the argument is that admins should not be able to use these powers to benefit a select group of members, while not benefiting the rest of the community. This basically means that building a spawn using world edit is fine, but in my opinion, clan buildings that are made via world edit/creative shouldn't be allowed, as they provide shelter and resources for the members of the clan, while not allowing other members to gain these. Thus meaning that these clan members have an advantage in preparing for events such as PVP, as they are in secure location where their progress can't be interupted, yet they can easily interupt other's progress while they are building legitimately.
    Anyway, back to the matter at hand. I don't have a problem with this member of staff, in fact this is just a prime example of how world edit has been used to benefit clan members and disclude others, therefore giving the clan members an unfair advantage. Images posted below, though I believe that the building has since been removed/relocated (via WE of course).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, this ender farm has been made from iron blocks. This statement from an admin says that making a building from ridiculous items such as iron blocks is WRONG.
    http://pawncraft.co.uk/xf/threads/staff-advantages.6689/page-2 for the quote.
    I would ask for a block check on the blocks to check if they were pasted in via WE, but I cannot locate the building any more. If this was made legitimately, then I apologise for any inconvenience caused. Though I have reason to believe that this clan building was made via world edit, and I know for certain (though don't have evidence as I can't access chat logs) that the trusted members of Skulblaka were able to use this building to gain enderpearls and exp and therefore have a big advantage in PVP situations.
    As I said, if my investigations provide false evidence, then simply disregard them, though I encourage you to speak out and say what you REALLY think.
     
    #1
  2. the_amber_trap

    the_amber_trap Calm down so I can be the angry one. Staff Member

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    Those are wool blocks.
     
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  3. crinkle

    crinkle Still very much bizness. VIP RAINBRO

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    Ok i'll edit this post with a much longer reply soon, but Slaw, you should add in some Epica screenshots to strengthen and broaden your argument.
     
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  4. TheRowan

    TheRowan Well-Known Member VIP

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    I understand your point and agree to an extent, but i thought that most admins are happy to help anyone to an extent with copy paste functions? Not just clan members.
     
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  5. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    The floating blocks are, however the blocks covering the floor of all 4 ender farms (an area of around 30 x 70 maybe?) were made from iron. I don't have evidence of this, as Axel showed up and I didn't want to blow my cover.
    Edit: I don't know how to quote properly, so that's all you're getting.
    Edit 2:
    Exactly, to an extent, but an enormous exp and money making machine is going too far.
     
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  6. Minatoman10

    Minatoman10 Member

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    Slaw look all admins will copy/paste for anybody and WE to an extent. Admins do not abuse there powers but I don't think that anybody should be able to use W.E because in my opinion it has made pawncraft not so good a server (in my opinion). Slug is the leader of Mages and doesn't need much work done because he is admin, this makes me sad. It makes Mages as well as pawncraft not so good a place for me. I remember when I joined Pawncraft I only stayed because I had fun helping out in Mages if slug and other admins had W.E ability's I probably wouldn't have stayed longer than a week. The only thing keeping me at the moment is the people on the server who I like to talk to. So slaw no they arnt abusing but I don't think they should have the powers because It ruins the server for some people.
     
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  7. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    To an extent.
    Why do you feel the need to check yourself? It is clearly due to fear, as mentioned in the other thread by cae. People are scared to speak up, in fear of punishment.
    Edit: As far as I'm concerned, creative buildings should stay just that, creative. They shouldn't be brought into the survival world because guess what that's for? Survival. Survival shouldn't be made easier for some people and not for others.
     
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  8. TheRowan

    TheRowan Well-Known Member VIP

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    All of the admins who can use world edit have a good sense of judgement, and they havent got to the positions they hold by abusing powers. Im pretty sure that they would not use WE to give clan members any more than they would a normal member of the server. To use an example, slug has several times stated he would not copy sometime i made in creative into the main world becuase he felt it was giving me an advantage. Also, if i was going to ask any admin to do something for me, i would ask slug purely because having been in his clan for a while i know him well, i think it would be the same story with other people, they will first ask the people they know better for help, ie members of their clan.

    Edit: I understand your point about creative buildings, but many of them still require a huge amount of effort to build, and are not intended for selfish use, rather to benefit many possibly of their clan or town. I kinda think that to an extent its okay to transfer some buildings, but again thats at the discretion of the admin involved. They wouldnt use their powers to give others advantages, regardless of who they are.
     
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  9. crinkle

    crinkle Still very much bizness. VIP RAINBRO

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    1 - Is it not the case that any clan can build a clan only building, in which they can have a mob spawner device which only that clan can use? Can you provide evidence of actual advantaged-Skulblaka pvp on a normal member? It's ok to cite the possibility of advantage, but has it ever been put into practise?

    2 - from the screenshots, the FLOOR is made of iron blocks and like 80-90% of it is wool? The building isnt going to be redesigned and, as it presumably was admin made

    3 - If the building has moved a blockcheck will fail. blockcheck checks for changes recorded at that block's coordinates, if the building is moved it will lose its history. Happily this makes your case study impossible to prove either way.But as i started off, get some epica screenshots in there!

    Now back to my first remark, yes there is some worldediting in epica of clan only buildings. There is even a massive, cool looking building in epica which is 97% worldedited (its not clan only), guess what, no one goes there. Its a dead horse, its not a spawner, just a pretty building that isnt used. I fully w.e'ed it originally and then built one section of it in an act of contrition.

    I hate to harp back to old arguments, but you see, if i do have a clan building which is some part worldedited, its not because I'm lazy. I'd love to do everything legit and block by block. But i dont have time to do that and all the other funky admin stuff i must do to be a good admin. No admin does.

    I realise you can and probably will say that I can overjustify my worldedits with that indefinately. You'll just have to trust me and other admins when we say we dont do it that much. Your point of view is important, but has already taken up more than its fair share of time for me.

    You'll just have to trust us when we say we know what we're doing. In Cae's now locked thread a lot of people voiced in on our side, and its good to have that support. We cant and shouldnt be asked to justify our actions to every single user, if we have the backing of the main, thats good enough for me.

    And if I havent persuaded you to my opinion, I hope at least I've persuaded you to drop the issue. Because theres not much further really to take all this drama, other than to say if you can't accept (maybe not agree with) our actions when the majority of the server does, maybe the server is no longer for you.
     
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  10. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    Demotions happen all the time.
    And what about the people who either aren't in a clan, don't have an admin in their clan or have an admin in their clan, but don't know them well?
     
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  11. TheRowan

    TheRowan Well-Known Member VIP

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    They can still ask them, just becuase they do not know them, doesnt mean they will be refused. Also true, admins do get demoted, but i still feel that they all have a good sense of judgement, and if they do abuse their powers they will be demoted. Why use the actions of few as a reason not to trust the rest?
     
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  12. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    I understand that being an admin is very time consuming, but so is making a large enderman farm. When I made mine, I died many times, due to fall damage and spent a hell of a lot of money on sticky pistons, yet someone else can just make their own in 1/100th of the time (or less), and it can be much larger and cost absolutely nothing. This I feel is unfair.
    People often back authority because they don't want to upset them, because they don't want to be punished.

    Money is made when killing mobs. An ender farm provides a safe place to kill mobs fast, therefore a lot of money is made.
    This money can be spent on building townies and therefore have protection from pvpers.
    Also enchantments are gained from enderfarms. Enchantments such as the ones that Ejosh used when attacking me.
    http://pawncraft.co.uk/xf/threads/ban-request-ejosh.6502/

    I can't remember saying that I don't trust admins. Admins want the best for their clan, though seem to sometimes take it too far, and use their admin powers to give their clan members an advantage over others.
    So, how can this world editing problem be resolved?
    Option a) World edit is only available for use on fully public buildings
    Option b) World edit is available to all no matter what.
    Basically we either have a fully creative server (which it is turning into) or we have a survival server with a creative world.

    <Merged by Pawned>
     
    #12
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  13. crinkle

    crinkle Still very much bizness. VIP RAINBRO

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    Because us admins would of course, punish, mute or ban people because they dont share our point of view. If we did that we would not be a popular server.

    Money is also made from trading, doing jobs for people, and hourly interest. And its not as if only mobs in mob spawners provide xp and money. In my opinion the more pvp free areas there are the better.

    Againt, enchantments are gained from XP not enderfarms. I note that you stop short of saying Ejosh only gained said enchantments because he used a worldedited enderman spawner in the end. It is wise to do so, but even so thats a poor case point. Ejosh was banned for that incident, but not for reasons related to the big isue, when you rightly reported him.

    As for claiming an unfair PVP advantage, that is very rich coming from someone that used to PVP all the time. PVPing barely within permissable limits, just about everyone that was online on the server, most of the time. I'm pretty sure you were told back then that creating pvp related drama for admins to deal with would lead to us being less supportive of you when you needed us. And I'm pretty sure most of the time you were PVPing you didnt stop to think if the fight you were initiating was fair.
     
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  14. Axelmotley

    Axelmotley The Dementor Staff Member

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    Have you bothered to ask me who all is invited to my XP farm?
     
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  15. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    I never created drama. I killed people and that was it. What actually created the drama were the false accusations of me breaking rules. I'm sure that if I had broken actual rules, I would be banned by now.
    At one point it was all trusted members which was like 3 people? Still the fact remains that these 3 people had an unfair advantage due to world edit.

    EDIT: I'll quit now before provoking more drama. I doubt that I'll ever approve of WE, but that's just me. Sorry for wasting your time, I just had to get it off my chest.
     
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  16. Axelmotley

    Axelmotley The Dementor Staff Member

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    Hmm trusted members being: Morgan5555 (admin) Pawned (admin) SkulblakaBank (my alt account) Those were my clan members whom were invited

    Also, I have members of Free, Logic, DERAIL, and a few other clans.

    Honestly, This farm was pretty much public to the people who ASKED or NEEDED an xp farm.

    Also, as for the locketted chests that is where my CLAN stores there items since we eliminated the Chest Complex.
     
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  17. crinkle

    crinkle Still very much bizness. VIP RAINBRO

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    You killed people a lot, and did everything exactly as far as the rules would let you, if the rules had said you could kill people no more than 10 times, I'm sure you would have killed those people 10 times in a row. And to be honest I remember there were a few times i did wish I could ban you, but you stuck within the limits, so you were not banned.
     
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  18. slawitb0y

    slawitb0y Administrator - Level 0

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    That's the way I am. I play sports, so I've been taught to bend the rules as far as I can, while staying within the limitations of the rules.
     
    #18
  19. Axelmotley

    Axelmotley The Dementor Staff Member

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    Does that clear up things a bit for you slaw?
     
    #19
  20. Bankercat3

    Bankercat3 Master Banker

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    Video games and Sports are polar opposites, and you should change your mindset accordingly.
     
    #20
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